tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post2660568493313449116..comments2023-11-03T02:27:58.016-07:00Comments on Covenant Thinklings: Witnesses to the ResurrectionBrian Emmethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-76034394701145244042010-04-06T11:02:09.900-07:002010-04-06T11:02:09.900-07:00by-the-way, our tongue-talking Chinese friend said...by-the-way, our tongue-talking Chinese friend said "Anything is by a determination to start a seed" ... at least according to google translator. I'm guessing what he meant to say was <i>"do whatever it takes to plant the seed" </i>Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-61366333894730182352010-04-06T10:13:09.976-07:002010-04-06T10:13:09.976-07:00New post up.New post up.Brian Emmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-13953974432736882182010-04-05T13:14:51.475-07:002010-04-05T13:14:51.475-07:00Thanks David, I know very little about the history...Thanks David, I know very little about the history of the region that has been influenced by the E.O. If I found that there were E.O. organizations focused on students after WWII, it would be make a great comparative study. If you come across any historical works that addresses this please send it along.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-59486949932375772192010-04-05T05:51:37.516-07:002010-04-05T05:51:37.516-07:00joseph, i think there is a long history of orthodo...joseph, i think there is a long history of orthodox brotherhoods in many countries that were created for a variety of causes and functions. not sure if any of these were considered "student" movements.davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01492106276915640809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-37866664973014271692010-04-05T05:12:08.468-07:002010-04-05T05:12:08.468-07:00Speaking of the Orthodox Church, does anyone know ...Speaking of the Orthodox Church, does anyone know (David, or Steve) if there existed student movements, and lay movements among the Eastern Orthodox in the 30s through the 50s? I gave my presentation on my research on Catholic student movements in Brazil on Friday. One of my friends, who is a Miami-born Cuban but does her research on the Soviet Union, saw some parallels to the social processes in the Kruschev period with what was happening with Catholic students in Brazil. Also, amidst all the French Catholic theologians and philosophers I have been reading, I have on my “to-do” pile a Russian Orthodox philosopher who resided in France, Nicolai Berdeyev.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-3161835154366884952010-04-04T20:49:46.475-07:002010-04-04T20:49:46.475-07:00Christ is risen! Hope you all had a great Easter....Christ is risen! Hope you all had a great Easter.<br /><br />steve h. - i don't think that jordan bajis is a member of what would be considered a "canonical" orthodox church, but i hear that his book deals well with orthodox theology. not sure if he's the best resource for EO thought.davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01492106276915640809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-89102940988647531672010-04-04T17:06:24.400-07:002010-04-04T17:06:24.400-07:00I just went over to Scot McKnight's blog and h...I just went over to Scot McKnight's blog and he has the Kirk article posted there as well. Only four comments so far, so some of you may want to go over and say something about it. The author is participating in the dialogue, Brian.<br /><br />blog.beliefnet.com/jesuscreed/<br /><br />Hope everyone had a wonderful and blessed Easter/Resurrection Day.<br /><br />The weather here in central KY is as good as it gets -- green grass (sorry,it's green, not blue), trees in bloom, sunshine, high <br />70's and virtually no bugs or humidity -- eat your heart out Joseph! <br /><br />I wish spring were year 'round! All the new life is an awesome metaphorical backdrop for celebrating resurrection life.John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-17756117669654708962010-04-04T16:24:57.866-07:002010-04-04T16:24:57.866-07:00Thanks, Steve and John--most helpful. I saw the C...Thanks, Steve and John--most helpful. I saw the CT article, John... I know, only tangentially, the author, so it was fun to see his piece and say, "I know that guy!" Before long, we'll all be saying that about Joseph's articles and books!Brian Emmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-59052256526223278132010-04-04T09:54:16.018-07:002010-04-04T09:54:16.018-07:00http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/april/10....http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/april/10.37.html<br /><br />The link above is to a great article in Christianity Today, "A Resurrection That Matters" by J.R. Daniel Kirk<br /><br />It's provocative subtitle reads: "If we are completelhy saved from our sins through the Cross, what's the point of the empty tomb?"<br /><br />Kirk says that like David was the anointed and chosen King before Saul was dead, he was not yet seated on the throne. He likens Jesus to the pre-enthroned King, and the resurrected ascended Jesus as the enthroned King of the Universe.<br /><br />It's well worth a read. Here are a few excerpts:<br /><br />The story of the Gospels is one in which Jesus inaugurates a new reign of God and deals a deathblow to the imposer king through his death on the cross. If the Cross is the defeat of the old king, the Resurrection is the enthronement of the new. Jesus now literally sits in the space that the Kings of Israel had fituratively occupied before him: at the right hand of God. Though the preexistent Christ has always been God's agent in the creation and rule of the world, the human Jesus is now joined to that role as Lord and king over all. <br /><br />Having vanquished the Enemy, who had usurped authority over all the kingdoms of the world (Luke 4:5-8), Jesus reclaims for humanity its original purpose: to rule the world on God's behalf (Gen. 1:26-28). This is one reason why we find Paul referring to the resurrected Jesus as the second and last Adam. But as the last Adam, Jesus also holds humanity's destiny in his hands.<br /><br /> Christian hope is more than wishful thinking, because the future on which we have set our hearts has already begun with Jesus' resurrection. He is now what we shall be.<br /><br />But our present life is also determined by Jesus' resurrection. When we claim that we are even now God's children, that God is growing us up into obedience, and that we are already justified, what we are saying in part is that the future laid up for us in the resurrected Christ is intruding on the present.<br /><br />When we speak of Jesus' resurrection, we are not talking only about Jesus' present but also about our future and the ways that our future is breaking into the world in which we now live.<br /><br />The future for which we long and hope is the moment when God recreates this world and populates it with renewed, embodied people. Resurrection tells us that a new creation is coming. The resurrection of Jesus tells us that this new creation has already begun.<br /><br />...the fate of this world is not destruction but redemption... if creation is to be redeemed, then we are not free to view any of our work in this world as just a lot of brass polishing on the Titanic. <br /><br />Because Jesus is the last Adam, he and those who are his siblings assume the vocation of the first Adam to rule, subdue, and fill the entire created order.John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-40972443651500696152010-04-03T16:01:12.592-07:002010-04-03T16:01:12.592-07:00"God shows his love for us in that while we w..."God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life." (Romans 5:8-10)<br /><br />"Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in a new way of life." (Romans 6:4)<br /><br />"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away, and look, new things have come. Everything is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, certain that God is appealing through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf, ‘Be reconciled to God.’ He made the One who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” (2 Corinthians 5:17-21"<br /><br />Jesus' death and resurrection means that he King of the Universe is not mad at us human beings. He is freely offering reconciliation to all who are estranged from him. His death and resurrection show us the lengths to which God went to make friends of his enemies.<br /><br />What upset Jesus most was "religious" people who made it difficult for people to make peace with God.<br /><br />He has commissioned us to be ministers of reconciliation.steve Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09636663818169138997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-74951928837100209822010-04-03T07:22:09.618-07:002010-04-03T07:22:09.618-07:00Happy Easter, all! "Christ is risen--he is r...Happy Easter, all! "Christ is risen--he is risen indeed!" and that changes everything!Brian Emmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-13215707824105260122010-04-03T04:17:54.810-07:002010-04-03T04:17:54.810-07:00Here you go Brian,
"[The resurrection and th...Here you go Brian,<br /><br />"[The resurrection and the ascension of Jesus] are designed not to take us away from this earth but rather to make us agents of the transformatioin of this earth, anticipating the day when, as we are promised, 'The earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the water cover the sea.' <br /><br />When the risen Jesus appears to his followers at the end of Matthew's gospel, he declares that all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to him... And the point of the gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John together with Acts -- is that this has already begun."<br /><br />N.T. Wright "Surprised By Hope", page 201John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-2439677391488485932010-04-02T18:11:39.665-07:002010-04-02T18:11:39.665-07:00Thanks, John. I appreciate your kind words. I'...Thanks, John. I appreciate your kind words. I've appreciated all the guys comments.<br />BLBilly Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739420756402743057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-3478570333075560272010-04-02T17:40:52.551-07:002010-04-02T17:40:52.551-07:00Billy and I agree that what we are doing now, long...Billy and I agree that what we are doing now, long separations without the privileges and pleasures of marriage, is preparing us to be best buds in heaven, not to mention providing for our family. This is not the way we planned it, but we are trying to follow the Lord in His travel plans for our life's journey together. Our Life in Him is more than life itself. We keep practicing for the time when we will be just "friends." In the meantime, whenever we are together, believe me we enjoy our togetherness in the most carnal and passionate way.Laurel Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311501139860462716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-4290537693599140462010-04-02T09:58:25.076-07:002010-04-02T09:58:25.076-07:00Thanks Billy,
Good wisdom and insight as always fr...Thanks Billy,<br />Good wisdom and insight as always from you.<br />Glad you're getting some time at home. Have wonderful weekend with your bride!<br />Blessings,<br />JohnJohn M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-467843017897980142010-04-02T09:57:07.488-07:002010-04-02T09:57:07.488-07:00IT'S FRIDAY, SUNDAY'S COMIN'!IT'S FRIDAY, SUNDAY'S COMIN'!John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-3034917011706463902010-04-01T20:53:00.727-07:002010-04-01T20:53:00.727-07:00By the way. I was home for a long weekend a couple...By the way. I was home for a long weekend a couple weeks ago, and will go home for a long weekend this next Friday. Thank God!<br />The project wants to be able to get us field guys home every two weeks. Would be nice.<br /><br />Re S_ _ and heaven, there are many areas where the Lord did not see a need to provide answers---at this time. It is amazing how He left so many things vague, such as all the issues churches argue about or differ on, church gov't and structure being an example. If all the answers were written, we would slack up on the relationship, which we tend to do anyway. He has made it so we will always depend on a real and living relationship with Him to make it along the path. He figured He'd help us along rather than our fastening our heart and eyes on a clear "blueprint" for everything.Billy Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739420756402743057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-89646969266609656822010-04-01T11:32:16.255-07:002010-04-01T11:32:16.255-07:00Brian, I already gave my best shot at answering wh...Brian, I already gave my best shot at answering what you're asking in my "serious" post right after Billy Long's. (Not the constipation one!) Whoever is interested in my response to Brian's current question can go back and read that post. I don't have anything else to say at the moment.John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-71645678242327198782010-04-01T08:04:08.375-07:002010-04-01T08:04:08.375-07:00Let's stickwith some questions that we may be ...Let's stickwith some questions that we may be able to answer! Not sure how much farther we can get with the "sex and heaven" discussion...<br /><br />But given the fact that Jesus rose from the dead, what kinds of life applications flow from that reality. How might this sentence be completed: "Because Jesus rose from the dead, we can (or we are thereby called to) ___________." There is clearly no one right answer here; I'm looking for proposed applications, things we can/should be doing.<br /><br />(If there are those out there who want to kick around whether we can actually know that Jesus rose, we can go there, too.)Brian Emmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-14755236747265410632010-03-31T17:31:10.199-07:002010-03-31T17:31:10.199-07:00That's allowed! I've done that a few time...That's allowed! I've done that a few times myself! :)John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-26374042754438664272010-03-31T14:41:51.469-07:002010-03-31T14:41:51.469-07:00ok, np. i stand corrected. I didn't think abou...ok, np. i stand corrected. I didn't think about it very much, I was just talking off the cuff.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-81350954775342027202010-03-31T11:59:48.436-07:002010-03-31T11:59:48.436-07:00Joseph, you're sounding very Gnostic. How can...Joseph, you're sounding very Gnostic. How can our sexuality be part of our "carnal nature" (I read that "sin nature".) when God created us male and female in his image and called it "good". Our sexuality was built-in to our humanity from the beginning -- before rebellion and sin entered in.<br /><br />If we want to acknowledge an "animal nature" regarding humans, then we should, imho, draw some boundaries. God called his entire creation "good", so whatever he put into us by fiat or by directed, intelligently designed, evolution, animal or whatever, is/was also good. <br /><br />Secondly we need to keep in mind as a backdrop to any discussion that humans, male and female, were the only part of his creation that he gave special personal attention to, as Genesis describes, forming them with his own hands and breathing his life into them. Humankind is the only part of his creation that he describes as being "in his image". Therefore, if we are "animal" we are still set apart as having a different status from the other animals. <br /><br />I think we would be leaping too far to say that human copulation is no different than that of other animals. That idea flies in the face of all God says in Genesis 1 & 2. <br /><br />Regarding the boundaries of covenant that you referred to, I totally agree. But God made no protective boundaries for other animals. If our sexuality is no different than a dog or a horse, why not just copulate with whomever, whenever -- the "just love the one you're with," philosophy that boomers have made their sexual legacy to the emerging generations.<br /><br />Your last line sounds contradictory to some of the conclusions we (corporately) drew in our "Hope" discussion regarding the future -- that of a new heaven and a new earth -- resurrected physical bodies present in a restored physical creation. <br /><br />You sound like the old Pietists who just want to escape this sinful world and their sinful bodies to live as disembodied spirits with Jesus.<br /><br />I think The Resurrection and the hope of resurrection gives us more to hope for than that.<br /><br />I agree with you and Brian that the intimacy and fellowship that we will experience with him and everyone else in that perfectly restored and redeemed new creation will so far surpass the sexual act that it will pale in comparison.<br /><br />But the part I was referring to in my post is the difficulty in imagining my wife being just like any other sister in Christ, instead of the exclusive, covenant relationship we now share. Can you married people project yourselves into that, or am I missing something.<br /><br />Joseph, perhaps I read more into your comments than you intended. Please don't hear my post as a personal attack. But whatever you intended, I think what I said above needs to be said. I personally think that what I've said is founded on biblical teaching regardless of one's position on origins.John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-40847744226219201022010-03-31T09:07:16.614-07:002010-03-31T09:07:16.614-07:00I should have added in the first paragraph above, ...I should have added in the first paragraph above, the first line that begins with "God in his infinite wisdom ..." that he also places it within the <i>protective boundaries of covenant</i> (you hear me single people?"). <br /><br />I hasten to add to the last line of the previous post, that I seriously doubt that there is a husband (or a wife) in this forum that enjoys more delightful emotional initimacy or <i>covental</i> sexual satisfaction than me. Nevertheless, I am beginning to tire of earthly things ... the resurrection truely is our hope and anchor.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-34692616922268264572010-03-31T07:29:47.751-07:002010-03-31T07:29:47.751-07:00sexuality is basically just a pleasurable activity...sexuality is basically just a pleasurable activity designed to reproduce the specicies. God in his infinite wisdom, invests it with holy meaning by making it a metaphor for spiritual and emotional intimacy with him. I am sure, being in the presence of the Lord is so far beyond the sex act, that it is unimaginable. <br /><br />If one believes in intelligent design through guided evolution (as many Catholic theologians do) then copulation (apart from the devine metaphor) is simply a hold-over or remnant of our animal nature. There is certainly much animality about our lower physical drives.<br /><br />I can easily see how in the new heavens and the earth, there may be no need for sexual reproduction -- and no need for a metaphor of intimacy, just as one passage indicates there is no need for the sun to provide light, since God himself will be our light. <br /><br />I, for one, would not mind shedding the animal nature (the carnal nature?) and moving on to something better.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-88209363246230403442010-03-31T06:47:04.134-07:002010-03-31T06:47:04.134-07:00Brian, thanks, we cross-posted. I have thought al...Brian, thanks, we cross-posted. I have thought along those lines, but you articulated it very well.<br /><br />We are talking of a marriage between Jesus and the Church (His Bride). Hmmm... Hard to imagine "sex-like" intimacy w/o the physicality, but Paul does insert that idea into his passage cautioning the Corinthians against sexual immorality: "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.' But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit." <br />I Cor. 6:16-17.<br /><br />Then there is Ephesians, chapter 5.<br />I suppose we have to trust God's wisdom here and maintain hope and faith for what he has planned for us?<br /><br />Like I tell my 7th graders when they ask if there will be sports in heaven. I answer, "I don't know but if there isn't, whatever is there will be so good that it will make you forget that sports as you know them ever existed."<br /><br />Brian, are you saying that I have to do the same with my adult sensibilities as I'm asking my 7th grade boys to be with theirs?<br /><br />That's a lot to ask!<br /><br />OK everyone, did Brian just speak the first and last word on Joseph's question or is there more to be said?John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.com