tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post4795788285604503435..comments2023-11-03T02:27:58.016-07:00Comments on Covenant Thinklings: SIGNS OF CESSATIONBrian Emmethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-5307591394476698222009-08-04T17:49:22.141-07:002009-08-04T17:49:22.141-07:00New post now available!New post now available!Brian Emmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-9186493460778122402009-08-04T11:02:02.143-07:002009-08-04T11:02:02.143-07:00Joseph, your Mat 5:8 comment about being pure in h...Joseph, your Mat 5:8 comment about being pure in heart and seeing God seems like a logical transition into the other topic we were discussing in the email ("Searching and finding").<br />BillyBilly Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739420756402743057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-82753472197132692632009-08-03T15:40:57.659-07:002009-08-03T15:40:57.659-07:00Joseph,
I have no doubt that you will disarm your ...Joseph,<br />I have no doubt that you will disarm your intellectual inquisitors, demand respect from your interrogators, fully incite provocative thought from your evaluators, and sustain commaradaree with your competitors, and all will be done in the most genial, humble way. You are in our prayers now.<br />Give them everything you are and everything you now. This is the foundation of a great teacher and scholar.Laurel Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311501139860462716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-85104609086736756002009-08-03T04:41:44.200-07:002009-08-03T04:41:44.200-07:00Hi Billy, it has been a blessing to have you and L...Hi Billy, it has been a blessing to have you and Laurel “fellowshipping” with us in here. Most of the time we barely keep up a quorum for a conversation: two or three, but I personally enriched by substance and quality of the experience and thoughtfulness of this group. And Laurel definitely livens things up around here!<br /><br />Speaking of the interior life, here is one of my favorite scriptures. It is taken from the verse on the sermon of the mount that says the “pure in heart will see God.” Eugene Peterson’s version:<br /><br />Matt. 5:8"You're blessed when you get your inside world—your mind and heart—put right. Then you can see God in the outside world.<br /><br />This has become my mission in life: to get my mind and heart aligned with him so that I can see him around me and I can know and love him.<br /><br />You all will not hear anymore from me until Wed. night or Thurs. After I finish one more cup of coffee, I am on my way to the university to pick up my comps questions.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-42394381676025855322009-08-02T19:16:00.017-07:002009-08-02T19:16:00.017-07:00Hey Billy, haven't visited all weekend. I'...Hey Billy, haven't visited all weekend. I'm trying to work on my internal stuff, while attending two weddings, a family birthday party, and breakfast this morning with my 1st cousin who was in town for one of the weddings! "Yeh-Men" to your "Yeh-Men"!John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-50815281779886620872009-08-02T18:52:13.577-07:002009-08-02T18:52:13.577-07:00Hey! Where did everybody go???Hey! Where did everybody go???Billy Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739420756402743057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-1851843810206936012009-08-01T05:39:32.202-07:002009-08-01T05:39:32.202-07:00I am going to do like the old pentecostal preacher...I am going to do like the old pentecostal preacher in the mountains of Kentucky who would give a deep "Yea-men" when he heard something he liked. So to all of you brethren I add my, "YEA-MEN!"Billy Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739420756402743057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-82025360615334641212009-07-31T20:08:18.343-07:002009-07-31T20:08:18.343-07:00Amen to Steve's dual amen!Amen to Steve's dual amen!John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-70296734372888221122009-07-31T08:27:57.948-07:002009-07-31T08:27:57.948-07:00"Preach" on, Billy! Those are rich words..."Preach" on, Billy! Those are rich words -- sound like one of the Fathers.steve Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09636663818169138997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-91668222680370821232009-07-31T08:27:57.317-07:002009-07-31T08:27:57.317-07:00"Preach" on, Billy! Those are rich words..."Preach" on, Billy! Those are rich words -- sound like one of the Fathers.steve Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09636663818169138997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-82390753757086542972009-07-31T06:44:33.746-07:002009-07-31T06:44:33.746-07:00John, I also meant to include you in my "than...John, I also meant to include you in my "thank you."Billy Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739420756402743057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-70920544880747547742009-07-31T06:42:27.650-07:002009-07-31T06:42:27.650-07:00Joseph and Steve, thanks for your kind and encoura...Joseph and Steve, thanks for your kind and encouraging words to Laurel and me. We do appreciate it. One source of strength over the recent years has been the encouragement we have received from godly people we love and trust. <br /><br />I have to say AMEN to both of your comments about the inner life. If we are not strengthened in the inner man we will fail when the “outward man perishes.” It seems that the Lord has to kill the outward man to expose the realities of the inward man. The inner life sustains the outer, and it is the eternal perspective that helps us to us to be sober in our temporal perplexities.<br /><br />I believe the Lord wants us to hold to Him and be faithful during times of contrasting extremes (sometimes simultaneous) and in the midst of the inexplicable. Too often we are environmental Christians. We are fine “on the mountain” and in “fair weather” but give up or quit during the storm or in times of darkness. So the Lord moves us from the peak to the pit and everywhere in between, and we have to be fixed in Him from one end of the spectrum of experience to the other. We hold to the Lord from the heights of Herman to the valley of the Jordon, as David said. We have to be faithful and consistent in our commitment to the Lord regardless of the landscape, whether we are familiar with it or not, whether we are comfortable with it or not. I think the Lord gives us the opportunity (as He did to Israel- Josh 11-12) to conquer on the mountains, on the plains (a plateau can seem like the worst place), on the slopes (some upward, some downward), in the valleys and lowlands, and the South (desert, dry places). <br />It is interesting to note that if the inner man is not “right” a person will “screw things up” at any point along the spectrum. On the mountain he will become proud and forget God, in the pit he will become angry at God. The aged English minister Arthur Burt said, “At what point down in the valley that you begin to squeal and be angry at God, at that same corresponding point up the mountain you will forget God.” <br /><br />I did not mean to get off track in the conversation, but Steve’s and Joseph’s comments about the inner life struck a cord with me.<br />I did not mean to sound preachy, but these are principles that I have had to live by over the recent years.Billy Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739420756402743057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-49489379195768074522009-07-31T06:22:05.865-07:002009-07-31T06:22:05.865-07:00Laurel, ditto what Steve said.
Joseph and Steve, ...Laurel, ditto what Steve said.<br /><br />Joseph and Steve, I agree with the interior work focus rather than a focus on more visible outward activities... I am in a season where it is vital for me to face my interior and work on it... I pray that at age 60 I can learn the interior lessons that I need in order to abide in the Vine, and be transformed by the renewing of my mind. I am realizing that despite cultivating what I have considered an intimate relationship with the Lord spirit to Spirit, I have neglected my soul and the inner disciplines, and recalibrating (to use Dr. Sam's word) that need to happen mentally and emotionally. God is gracious and merciful not to leave us alone, but to pursue us until we finally run out of steam in our own strength and submit to what He is after.John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-9332501129661636212009-07-31T05:46:47.563-07:002009-07-31T05:46:47.563-07:00I am definitely going give the pregnancy metaphor ...I am definitely going give the pregnancy metaphor a rest. Thanks for allowing me to exploit it a bit.Laurel Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311501139860462716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-82398586044120663982009-07-31T05:40:58.910-07:002009-07-31T05:40:58.910-07:00Ditto that Steve!
Steve and I were talking about...Ditto that Steve!<br /><br /> Steve and I were talking about what we would do differently with discipleship, and he mentioned that he would encourage disciples to focus less on the exterior stuff and more on the interior. I totally agree. And that is what is happening with some of us; God has stripped away some of our outward activities and ministries to work deeply in our hearts. That is most precious to him; not what we do but who we are in him.<br /><br />We need to develop a "spiritual theology of the interior life" that helps young people shape their hearts for a life in God.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-45779537888866426562009-07-31T05:03:56.323-07:002009-07-31T05:03:56.323-07:00Whatever IS NOT happpening in terms of "minis...Whatever IS NOT happpening in terms of "ministry" with you two, Billy and Laurel, it is what IS happening that is really wonderful.<br /><br />You are being filled with good things -- we taste them and derived benefit from them in your comments here and in the blog entries you have written.<br /><br />God has obviously been doing a marvelous work to fill your clay vessels with his perfume, light, oil, prescence... It will be wonderful to see what he has in mind when this season is past and he begins to release in greater measure the life he has been filling you with and working into you!steve Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09636663818169138997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-75301762698949335922009-07-30T18:06:16.739-07:002009-07-30T18:06:16.739-07:00Laurel, the only part that was directly addressing...Laurel, the only part that was directly addressing you was the idea of slightly changing the metaphor, from pregancy to mid-wifrey. The rest of the comment about the life-cycle of the "organic" was a general comment addressed to anybody in the blog. Both views of the metaphor are valid, I just personally find myself a bit detached, more like a mid-wife than a pregnant woman, or impregnating man. Perhaps because I have released all my vision and have allowed it to go into the grave. <br /><br />I can relate to St. Paul when he said "in me nothing good dwells." Perhaps I am like Abraham, getting old and feeling childless (in the spiritual sense).<br /><br />I am still looking for a good profile pic that will do justice to my expanding middle ... Deb might have one on her computer.<br /><br />Billy: thanks for sharing your journey of cessation. I can really relate to your experience and I think you can understand more than most what we are trying to get at in this particular discussion.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-84134120391078544822009-07-30T16:06:45.219-07:002009-07-30T16:06:45.219-07:00Joseph,
You said that your "comments are not ...Joseph,<br />You said that your "comments are not aimed at me in any way," but you addressed me exclusively. I have no other choice but to take your comments personally. Your comments are of great value to me, I take them very seriously.<br />I have just downloaded and printed Bro. Charles article and have read over it quickly. It is very insightful and demonstrates Bro. Charles' inimitable tone and eternal wisdom. I will limit my comments on this thread from now on to his article.<br />I am alone (barren) because I don't believe in the institution, I am alone (barren) because I am committed to the organic. I am in a spiritual wilderness with no organic material, I am in a dry and thirsty land where there is no water or nothing to produce life... (When I say I, I mean, Billy and I) I must trust that the Lord will do Is 42:-Consider not the former things, nor consider the things of old, Behold I will do a new thing, and shall it not spring forth,...<br />It is a good thing I know how to feed myself otherwise I would have starved to death years ago. My spiritual life menu has been quite extraordinary...Not much to choose from. Starving women are not fertile! I have a godly jealousy of yours and Debbie's fertility. I think the Lord approves. It is acceptable! Billy and I think we could do the same given the opportunity.Laurel Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311501139860462716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-24618263128040253912009-07-30T15:41:53.362-07:002009-07-30T15:41:53.362-07:00no, John, I think I understood you--we are in agre...no, John, I think I understood you--we are in agreement. I was just piggybacking on David's impressions about the revival.<br /><br />I have thought long and hard about why Jesus discouraged dramatic manifestations in public. If we were to count the occasions he asked people to be quiet or not tell anyone, I'm guessing it was nearly a dozen. Thats too many to just be a coincidence. There is a lesson for us there.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-50980096145319721332009-07-30T13:28:00.393-07:002009-07-30T13:28:00.393-07:00hi Laurel, my comments were not aimed at you in an...hi Laurel, my comments were not aimed at you in any way, nor were they meant to be critical of our movement. Among the men for many years we had discussions about organic versus intitutional, structures versus relationships that were a bit fruitless. I am simply point out that a long time ago we opted to stay relational and organic ... and to avoid institutions, thus, when the people start to age and die, so does the movement. <br /><br />It is the children that carry on the work. My point is in agreement with yours -- whether you want to say that we need to get pregnant, or that we need to be mid-wives, the goal is the same. Invest in the fresh and new move of God in young people.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-68484816844130218722009-07-30T13:27:48.859-07:002009-07-30T13:27:48.859-07:00I must clarify:
"I prefer the new," not ...I must clarify:<br />"I prefer the new," not the old.Laurel Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311501139860462716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-18644597008879247782009-07-30T13:25:00.195-07:002009-07-30T13:25:00.195-07:00You know Joseph,
I feel a bit like Hannah right no...You know Joseph,<br />I feel a bit like Hannah right now. I may be a bit mad (crazy) about being so spiritually barren. When the Priest observed her incoherent manifestations of grief, he thought she was drunk or crazy. Maybe this is why I don't make much sense to you. It's perfectly okay. <br />Your comment about your profile is hilarious. If this particular view is evidence of pregnancy then we are all with child.Laurel Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311501139860462716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-37276347386874616602009-07-30T12:11:06.964-07:002009-07-30T12:11:06.964-07:00Joseph, I'm completely on board with your comm...Joseph, I'm completely on board with your comments about "revival". You seem to have read my comments as a case "for" revival. That was not my intent. I was, though, acknowledging that at times God sovereignly interrupts us with his manifest presence and begins to do extraordinary things; and I was reflecting on how best to respond and interpret those times. Whatever we call these: revivals, moves, outpourings, refreshings, etc., they do happen periodically. I think the problems arise in our wrong expectations and immature seeking after experiences, rahter than the problem being on God's end. <br /><br />"I’m not praying for revival, I am praying to have eyes to see where the Spirit is going and what the Spirit is initiating." -- Amen, me too.<br /><br />We need transformation, not reviving.John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-74375232081402591202009-07-30T11:14:38.827-07:002009-07-30T11:14:38.827-07:00Joseph,
I am not sure I understand your response t...Joseph,<br />I am not sure I understand your response to my comments. <br />Please be assured that I am fully free from anything that looks like the "old,"in fact, I prefer it; even if I occasionally use it as a reference point. I was personalizing my comment, mine and Billy's journey together, not relating it to the Covenant movement. What Billy and I are doing right now is proof of that. Truly, my comments had nothing to do with the "movement." They are a fresh perspective that we are not obsolete, we have determined to walk in and follow the Spirit, even if the Spirit would lead us into obsolescence, we were willing to go if it would serve the Kingdom.<br />One of the best things the Lord ever did in my life was to separate me from the work He had called us to. I had the privilege of being a part of revival, a work, and a movement. The work, the revival, the movement, can easily become our mistaken identity and when the Lord takes His hand off of any or all, we get our feelings hurt and wonder what we did wrong. It took me a long time to realize that I wasn't the revival, the work, or the movement, that I had done nothing wrong.<br />And I completely agree with what you said. I just wish I had something to guard and watch over right now. But we don't, so we just keep asking the Lord to "remember His word unto His servants." I know we are not done yet.Laurel Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311501139860462716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-63247103791996184032009-07-30T08:13:22.066-07:002009-07-30T08:13:22.066-07:00One other thought. When the meetings of the new ch...One other thought. When the meetings of the new church plant seemed dead, there was "life" in other more "unorthodox" activities in our life. At that time I had a slight glimpse of the fact that the future could hold a new paradigm for Laurel and me. But all that is yet to unfold while we are still in the waiting (as far as "ministry" is concernerd), but in proactive and aggressive seeking in terms of our walk with the Lord.Billy Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739420756402743057noreply@blogger.com