tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post5037126809443995085..comments2023-11-03T02:27:58.016-07:00Comments on Covenant Thinklings: Irreconcilable Differences?Brian Emmethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-33980892885181969512008-05-28T05:39:00.000-07:002008-05-28T05:39:00.000-07:00hi Brian, I put up a new topic... on one of the mo...hi Brian, I put up a new topic... on one of the most important commands of Christ and its apparent incongruity with some of the teachings of Paul....Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-91002624556108143922008-05-28T04:13:00.000-07:002008-05-28T04:13:00.000-07:00We seem to have arrived at the end of this particu...We seem to have arrived at the end of this particular line... I won't have time to get a new post up until next week, so stay tuned. And if you have a snappy post idea, send it to me--that would get a new conversation started sooner!Brian Emmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-44879574927974524962008-05-26T13:10:00.000-07:002008-05-26T13:10:00.000-07:00I'm Dick (Sears manager) and Nancy's (stay-at-home...I'm Dick (Sears manager) and Nancy's (stay-at-home mom)son (middle child, two sisters), grew up on Long Island's North Shore in a town that was and is really called Centerport, went to Harvard (BA in English), married Kathy in 1977 (and still am), three grown kids all married. Worked in Christian bookselling for 12+ years, then helped start (and still head) Covenant School (K-8th grade), and serve as (a) pastor in Covenant Church of Arlington, MA (since 1996).<BR/><BR/>David, sounds like the (covenant)churches you were a part of perhaps could have used some parts of this discussion!?Brian Emmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-91179071888009038512008-05-26T08:58:00.000-07:002008-05-26T08:58:00.000-07:00Johnthemusician, why don't you tell them about som...Johnthemusician, why don't you tell them about some of the stuff you have been reading lately... particularly Mumford's book.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-87413704156160157102008-05-26T08:38:00.000-07:002008-05-26T08:38:00.000-07:00Hmmm yes and no as far as the relavency of anger i...Hmmm yes and no as far as the relavency of anger in my life. I'm Captain Joe's son David. As such I've had plenty of opportunities to deal with anger in my life and at this point I don't feel that it's a very relavent issue for me or at least that God is working in that area right now.<BR/><BR/>David, as far as more of an introduction to who I am goes, Like I said I'm Captain Joe's son, 22 years of age. I recently moved back from Ohio to Miami with my parents due to back problems and am trying to reasses the direction of my life. <BR/>I call my self "the musician" because I was classically trained on the cello. I also play guitar and have a small proficiency in piano. Primarily though I enjoy writing music working in relationships. =O)John W Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11893429660214056417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-58165817364080255272008-05-26T07:32:00.000-07:002008-05-26T07:32:00.000-07:00Steve: I agree. David: I have a web site that my w...Steve: I agree. <BR/><BR/>David: I have a web site that my wife and I use to post updates and inspirational thoughts that you might find interesting ... <BR/><BR/><A>http://www.friends4thejourney.com/</A><BR/><BR/>This morning I posted some brief thoughts on theodicy from Psalm 9.<BR/><BR/>Brian, we can let this percolate a little while longer, but whenever you feel it is time to move on, I have an idea for another discussion on one of the commands of Christ.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-51401826211526204732008-05-26T07:17:00.000-07:002008-05-26T07:17:00.000-07:00I'm here -- from time to time these past days.It h...I'm here -- from time to time these past days.<BR/><BR/>It has been a good practical discussion.steve Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09636663818169138997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-90499586027255355972008-05-25T18:40:00.000-07:002008-05-25T18:40:00.000-07:00Joseph, did you read the exchange David and I had?...Joseph, did you read the exchange David and I had? I told him that if he was somebody different than who I had talked to before that I would introduce myself. He came back and said that he was the same David that had exchanged several emails with me in the fall about EO. We had introduced ourselves then. I thought that the rest of you guys knew me already! Dave, do you want a re-intro? If so, give a holler!John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-11947234167829988442008-05-25T15:46:00.000-07:002008-05-25T15:46:00.000-07:00John: I thought you said you were going to introdu...John: I thought you said you were going to introduce yourself? Where are your manners? <BR/><BR/>And Brian, Steve, Don, Johnthemusician and others?<BR/><BR/>Has anyone else benefited from this discussion of resolving anger and conflict?Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-54627387622040338712008-05-25T15:35:00.000-07:002008-05-25T15:35:00.000-07:00Same here, David.Same here, David.John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-86789965788415645352008-05-25T15:31:00.000-07:002008-05-25T15:31:00.000-07:00John, that was me. Good to hear from you again.John, that was me. Good to hear from you again.davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01492106276915640809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-55349988081806488662008-05-25T15:08:00.000-07:002008-05-25T15:08:00.000-07:00Hey David, glad you went "public" with us! Did we...Hey David, glad you went "public" with us! Did we talk by email back when the EO (Eastern Orthodoxy) issue was kind of hot on the blog? If so, we have already "met". If you're not the same guy, let me know, and I'll introduce myself.<BR/>John M.John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-2470196101137273142008-05-25T14:37:00.000-07:002008-05-25T14:37:00.000-07:00Yes, I know Billy but don't know Ben.It's a slight...Yes, I know Billy but don't know Ben.<BR/><BR/>It's a slightly small world :)davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01492106276915640809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-18599072710766249342008-05-25T14:24:00.000-07:002008-05-25T14:24:00.000-07:00cool, nice to meet you David ... glad to hear you ...cool, nice to meet you David ... glad to hear you have heard all good things about me ... you obviously have not been talking to the right people ;-)<BR/><BR/>Do you know Billy Long? he is a good friend of mine and has stayed in my home recently when he is here in South Florida on work ... also Ben Dean is another good friend from Raleigh ...Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-35902824316043496522008-05-25T14:10:00.000-07:002008-05-25T14:10:00.000-07:00I was introduced to the covenant churches in the 8...I was introduced to the covenant churches in the 80's by a good friend of mine. I attended one covenant church or another for a total of 15 years. After my 2nd church split at my 2nd covenant church - I found myself in the position of needing to look for another church. I continue to have many friends who either remain in covenant churches or who have spent time in them.<BR/><BR/>Joseph, I have never met you in person, but I have heard about you over the years (only good things of course). Otherwise, I don't think I know anyone else here from "covenant thinklings".<BR/><BR/>I live in Raleigh, NC and work as an ICU nurse at Duke.<BR/><BR/>I've been lurking here for a while with only minimal postings, so forgive me for taking so long to introduce myself.davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01492106276915640809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-4919001109130219122008-05-24T16:34:00.000-07:002008-05-24T16:34:00.000-07:00hi again David, if you are an old friend and you k...hi again David, <BR/><BR/>if you are an old friend and you know who we are--welcome.<BR/><BR/>If you are a new friend who just stumbled across this blog--welcome!<BR/><BR/>In either case, feel free to introduce yourself ... or not. I am a former pastor/church planter who lives in Miami. I am currently studying for a Ph.D. and sharing my faith with young singles, especially students. <BR/><BR/>Being "slow to anger" is a very good thing... however, it is also important to "resolve" your anger after the fact...especially things that are repetitive.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes 'controlled' anger can be helpful in allowing us to set proper boundaries when people try to take advantage of us or disregard our boundaries.<BR/><BR/>The main thing is that it be handled with self control, and in a constructive way...not destructive.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-48033884905483188592008-05-24T16:10:00.000-07:002008-05-24T16:10:00.000-07:00All very good thoughts - thanks for all of the com...All very good thoughts - thanks for all of the comments.<BR/><BR/>I don't tend to get angered easily - it takes a long time for me to become angry. I think my fairly "easy going" attitude doesn't naturally spur me to deal with things as they come, so after time the frustration develops.<BR/><BR/>Thank God that I don't have an explosive temper and often others don't really see how angry i am - but I see it and most importantly God sees it.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps, eventhough things might not bother me at the time, i should interject God's love and forgiveness into the situations so that no frustration builds.davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01492106276915640809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-69223712527714059002008-05-24T08:32:00.000-07:002008-05-24T08:32:00.000-07:00Having had some personal experience with my own ex...Having had some personal experience with my own explosive anger, I would add to what Joseph and Brian are saying, that it is usually impossible to stop and ask analytical questions when anger hits you. Or you may know why you're angry, but it still doesn't keep you from being out of control. <BR/><BR/>Afterward, when you're feeling guilty and vulnerable, perhaps then you can ask the Lord to show you root issues and how to deal with them. Or, obviously you can do that preventively, like now, before you get angry the next time.<BR/><BR/>Most of us, though, vow that we'll never do it again, without actually dealing with the root causes. Joseph's way of going back to the memories that come up and bringing Jesus into them to bring healing and release is an excellent approach.<BR/><BR/>For me it has been a synergy of several things: Being diagnosed with adult ADD and going on medication. Experiencing healing and deliverance in some specific areas along the lines of what Joseph recommends. And learning to be mindful about dialing down, relaxing and walking in the Spirit. And applying all of these with substantial doses of prayer.<BR/><BR/>Regarding the ADD, some of my symptoms were anxiety, impulsiveness, distraction, feeling torn a hundred ways at once, and angry emotional outbursts where the reaction was greater than the stimulus. <BR/><BR/>I tried for years to deal with these through fasting, prayer, deliverance and inner-healing, but they remained until I went on medication which "miraculously" gave me more relief than all the other spiritual ministry and disciplines I had tried.<BR/><BR/>The pills don't cure the problem and don't totally eliminate all the symptoms 100% of the time, but life is much better for me, my students and my loved ones because of them. I choose to see those pills as part of my "daily bread" from the Lord.<BR/><BR/>I bring up the medication topic because, with these kinds of issues, my experience is that many times there is no silver bullet, but the Lord gives us his grace, relief and healing in an "inter-disciplinary" way, rather than through just one means.John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-37405184874116736472008-05-24T07:52:00.000-07:002008-05-24T07:52:00.000-07:00For those with some familiarity with Catholic teac...For those with some familiarity with Catholic teaching, I believe Anger is one of the so-called Seven Deadly Sins... which clearly needs some nuancing, since Paul did say, "BE angry, but sin not." If all experiences of anger represent sinful responses/behaviors, we're all in deep trouble!<BR/><BR/>I agree with Joseph that anger is in the first place a warning signal; it signals me that I am feeling threatened or under attack in some way--it's what I'm feeling, not necessarily what's actually happening. But if I don't acknowledge, recognize and address the feeling, that's when my anger will lead me to sin--kind of like John Musician's example from 8th grade. So maybe a good way to begin to learn how to be angry/sin not would be to say aloud, "I am angry!" Then ask, "About what?" and then "Why am I angry about this?" Do I feel hurt? Attacked? Ignored? Belittled? Otherwise, we end up being controlled by the stuff other people do that"makes" us angry--we end up, without realizing it, giving control of ourselves over to someone else... and then blame them for our screw-ups: "I couldn't help it! He/She just made me so angry...!"<BR/><BR/>David, does any of this speak to the question you raised?Brian Emmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-51438085586160418842008-05-24T05:26:00.000-07:002008-05-24T05:26:00.000-07:00yes, I have given some thought to that in my own l...yes, I have given some thought to that in my own life. I have had some pretty huge anger problems. <BR/><BR/>Anger itself is a warning device, somewhat like pain. It lets you know there is a problem and you better get your hand out of the fire, for example. Another example would be the oil light on your car … the oil light is not the problem, but it is an indication of the problem. <BR/><BR/>Unresolved anger is cumulative, like a snowball rolling down a hill. That’s why the scripture says “do not let the sun go down on your wrath.” The longer you let the anger go, the easier it is for you to forget the original cause of the anger and let it turn into hardness or bitterness. <BR/><BR/>The key with dealing with the original source of the anger is to trace it back to the first cause: usually hurt, frustration or disappointment. Once you discover the first cause, for example hurt, then you have to go into the memory and “feel” the hurt, and invite Jesus to come into the picture and help you release the hurt to him – reframe it. <BR/><BR/>I have done this dozens of time with numerous memories of hurt and disappointment that caused a simmering level of anger in me. I have also done this with all of my adult children who were damaged by my anger. <BR/><BR/>I hope this helps David. Blessings to you!Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-51281006126785050792008-05-23T22:51:00.000-07:002008-05-23T22:51:00.000-07:00Brian talked about the admonition to "be angry and...Brian talked about the admonition to "be angry and sin not".<BR/><BR/>i have always found that to be nearly impossible in my life.<BR/><BR/>any thoughts on how to accomplish this?davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01492106276915640809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-68750395634824115752008-05-23T18:10:00.000-07:002008-05-23T18:10:00.000-07:00For the life of me I can't remember who wrote it.....For the life of me I can't remember who wrote it... maybe wild at heart, but something along the lines of, "church going men mistake being men of God for being <I>nice</I>. <BR/><BR/>I tend to think that I've almost always been very amiable on the external and tend to let things build up inside. I remember one time where I was angry with a kid in 8th grade and he hit me in the eye with a staple and I just explode into action. I jumped up ran behind him and slammed his head into the desk. Little did I know that the principal was standing right behind me. =OP <BR/><BR/>Anywho I think I personally have come to a place where if I have a disagreement I'll bring it up and have an honest discussion with just about anyone but most of the time I'm just agreeable and don't have any differences. <BR/><BR/>Hopefully that answers your question Brian with some more specifics.<BR/><BR/>I guess with me being of a younger generation my opinion on the state of things is that the school systems have taken all risk out of young peoples lives. Everything's so controlled these days and on top of that I wonder if sometimes the punishment for things doesn't fit the crime. Most often it seems that being a child is in itself a crime. <BR/><BR/>As far as the church I can't say much as I haven't been to one in quite a while. (wink)John W Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11893429660214056417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-19742893430080937252008-05-23T12:43:00.000-07:002008-05-23T12:43:00.000-07:00Thanks Steve for your honesty and vulnerability. ...Thanks Steve for your honesty and vulnerability. <BR/><BR/>Every culture has it's face-saving mechanism's and social taboos. Is there a dynamic at work in our culture that pressures us toward being "agreeable"?<BR/><BR/>And if this is true, does it get amplified even more strongly within the Christian sub-culture because of the reasons mentioned?John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-25438256907103143872008-05-23T11:25:00.000-07:002008-05-23T11:25:00.000-07:00Some of you may avoid conflict because you want to...Some of you may avoid conflict because you want to be more spiritual or something good like that. However, most of the time I want to avoid it because of fear -- of being rejected? of making someone mad? because I don't love someone enough to work through things? of...?<BR/><BR/>I don't tend to avoid conflict with those with whom I am secure; sadly, however, I may even be sinfully aggressive toward those who most love and depend on me. I also don't avoid conflict if someone makes me mad.steve Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09636663818169138997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-54021907265062737342008-05-23T10:04:00.000-07:002008-05-23T10:04:00.000-07:00Also: why do we tend to avoid conflict? Is it tha...Also: why do we tend to avoid conflict? Is it that we feel as Christians we shouldn't ever experience conflict--"if you were really walking in the Spirit, you wouldn't be upset." Conflict often evokes feelings of anger, and Christians sometimes identify all forms and expressions of anger as sin, instead of taking Paul's counsel: "Be angry, but sin not."Brian Emmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.com