tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post7436317578325029006..comments2023-11-03T02:27:58.016-07:00Comments on Covenant Thinklings: Manifesto IIBrian Emmethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-78624457618154021372008-09-23T14:48:00.000-07:002008-09-23T14:48:00.000-07:00What just happened? In response to a question from...What just happened? In response to a question from Joseph, I just wrote a post for the new thread. When I sought to publish it, I got an error message. Now the whole thread has disappeared!steve Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09636663818169138997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-4186431017526977922008-09-23T09:54:00.000-07:002008-09-23T09:54:00.000-07:00OK, we're going to move to a new topic, "From Chur...OK, we're going to move to a new topic, "From Church to Kingdom?", which will follow on the most recent set of comments here. Alert the world that it's time to get ready to blog on and chime in!<BR/><BR/>For my part, I pledge to do everything in my power not to repeat stuff I've already said! (Call me on it when I fail.)Brian Emmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-88316032112078676142008-09-23T08:47:00.000-07:002008-09-23T08:47:00.000-07:00Steve, I find myself resonating with your comments...Steve, I find myself resonating with your comments. Could you possibly speculate a bit about what it would look like 'practically' for us to move from a 'church' centered focus to a more 'kingdom' centered focus?Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-76130950665585748482008-09-23T06:02:00.000-07:002008-09-23T06:02:00.000-07:00It would be of interest to know if these conversio...It would be of interest to know if these conversions to EO or RCC actually make up a large number or a trend; or if there is a steady trickle or flow; or if the types of people converting is what grabs attention. I know there was a fairly significant move in that direction back in the late 1980's and early 1990's. I'm not current with it now.<BR/><BR/>It would be interesting to know how many who convert from "covenant" or other similar churches are actually going back to their own or their parent's roots. There were quite a number of RCCs who joined Pentecostal, Charismatic, or Evangelical churches not that many years ago.<BR/><BR/>I certainly think there are great riches in the content provided by some of the historical liturgies. I "feel" the attraction to historical roots. I appreciate the compatibility of the intellectual and the mystical that I have observed in a number of EO writers.<BR/><BR/>However, to me there seems to be a disconnect between the "ways" of the early centuries of the church and what happened later when the churches (east and west) took on the Roman Empire's model of organization, and eventually that model of government (the Roman style government was stronger in the RCC, of course).<BR/><BR/>I think I understand the hunger that motivates many of these moves. However, I can't help but think there must be some major frustration for those who change to find some idealistic situation when they increasingly have to deal with the actually reality of flawed hierarchies, as well the great number of cultural or nominal Christians in the historical churches. (I recently was with some RCC friends who are in an ecumenical community. It was interesting to hear them speak freely about fellow Catholics needing to be "saved." In the late 1970's one well known Catholic Charismatic theologian wrote that about 75-80% of Catholics are baptized pagans.) <BR/><BR/>My current thinking is that "original Christianity" (oh, for a better word) was more of a kingdom movement that produced local communities of the people of God (followers of Jesus, if you will). Gradually it seems like building "churches" took precedence over the kingdom movement. I am thinking, based on some degree of evidence, that the very understanding and use of the word "ekklesia" changed substantially as the focus moved from the kingdom to the "church." <BR/><BR/>I wonder if the covenant movement and other such movements have not gone through similar changes, and if that is not part of why we are struggling. I doubt that it is in our DNA to become highly organized, buy have we become less involved in a kingdom movement and more wrapped up in building and networking "churches." If the latter is the focus, there are groups that have done it longer and better than us. Why start a new one?steve Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09636663818169138997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-35315423352424795442008-09-22T12:59:00.000-07:002008-09-22T12:59:00.000-07:00Hi Laurel. Good to hear your voice.Hi Laurel. Good to hear your voice.Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05791587899672940996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-45895780340319755732008-09-22T12:43:00.000-07:002008-09-22T12:43:00.000-07:00Hi guys,I am very late to this discussion. And, I...Hi guys,<BR/>I am very late to this discussion. And, I do not have the breadth of experience and knowledge that you all do but here is what I think of the doc.<BR/>TO BE OR NOT TO BE AN EVANGELICAL- is that the question?<BR/> We must all, from time to time, evaluate, reassess, and reiterate what we believe. This process cleanses our souls, purges our spirits, and alters our activities. If we are blessed to have brethren in our lives who are like-minded and willing to participate with us in this type of self scrutiny, the benefits can be immeasurable and inspirational to those who are timid about this type of personal and collective analysis. I for one would like to honor the sort of courage that these brothers have displayed by allowing us to “listen in” on the dark night of their collective Evangelical souls.” It is obvious when reading the Document that they are very concerned what their legacy will be in the annals of church history; and their concern is that they will be recorded as being faithful to the call they received. Nothing could be more commendable. And, in light of the fact that many Evangelical church fathers are now passing away, a time of spiritual individuation is appropriate. It is true that when parents pass away, siblings must face each other for the first time without the arbitrating or unifying presence of their parents. We can often ignore one another until that time. This may be what our good brothers want to confront in anticipating the departure of their spiritual patriarchs. I don’t know. We may need to do the same.<BR/>I have only read thoroughly through #1 and #2. <BR/>They have invited us; “Together with them (us), we are committed…” -and I accept their invitation because I am also “thoughtful about our calling in today’s world” (pg. 2). I will try to honor, but at the same time, question their need to use, defend, define, apologize, and use the extraneous term Evangelical. They seem to feel a desperate need to distinguish themselves from “our counterparts,” very much like the favorite son or daughter must remind their siblings that the parents or parent really preferred them because…<BR/>They have a need to be acknowledged for their doctrinal attributes. I am certainly glad to do so. I can wholeheartedly give them this satisfaction in the 7 foundational truths (pg 5-6). They are my heart and Life as well.<BR/>They make a claim to speak for themselves (pg. 2) and on this promise they deliver in abundance with the emphasis on the personal pronouns:<BR/>“Our fellow Christians around the world”<BR/>“…we are distinct and distinguished from our counterparts…”“our calling in today’s world<BR/>“clarify where we stand”<BR/>“our concern is not for approval…<BR/>“our purpose is to make clear”<BR/>“We wish to state what we mean”<BR/>“to affirm who we are”<BR/>“we ourselves are those”<BR/>“our purpose here is to make a clear statement”<BR/>“we are who we say we are”<BR/>“Yet we hold to Evangelical beliefs that are distinct from others in important ways…”<BR/>“is unique to us”<BR/>All of the above reveal an unacceptable pride of distinction from other Christians that will necessarily and ultimately be reduced to the humbling reality that whether we like it or not, in the eyes of the world and its old and new orders, we are not welcome in their courts of arbitration, we are at odds with their agendas. No matter how exquisitely we defend ourselves, we remain vehemently opposed to the ways and means of accomplishing the same. We have different ways and different means and a different agenda.<BR/>The 7 Evangelicalisms can not be argued. The only thing missing is the Power of the Lord in doing the 7.<BR/>I applaud the 12 “All to oftens”; we are occasionally guilty of the same. And I have responded tearfully to the 6 “humble calls.”<BR/>#3, and all of its apologetics, I must leave with you dear brothers to sort out.<BR/>I have done my best, guys,<BR/>Your sister and friend, LaurelLaurel Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07311501139860462716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-11212887580362721872008-09-22T12:17:00.000-07:002008-09-22T12:17:00.000-07:00About doing just any old thing: zeal without knowl...About doing just any old thing: zeal without knowledge is not a good thing<BR/>About not doing anything: you can't steer a parked car...<BR/><BR/>Listening to the news this afternoon, and the bail-out noise, even I who don't react to news am feeling iffy.<BR/>What I think God is saying is this, prophetically:<BR/><BR/>don't go off like the Israelites who took matters into their own hands<BR/>but seek your roots deep<BR/>and strengthen your relationships<BR/>and strengthen your kin<BR/>and strengthen your cities<BR/>and strengthen your countries.<BR/>God will move as He wills, <BR/>we can stand firm while He does what He wills.Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05791587899672940996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-37337867366327795792008-09-22T12:00:00.000-07:002008-09-22T12:00:00.000-07:00Randy, sorry that I mischaracterized you regarding...Randy, sorry that I mischaracterized you regarding the ECM, I really had not heard you comment on it much. <BR/><BR/>Bruce "... something...something..." I am with you there. My old daddy used to say "DO SOMETHING, even if it is wrong..."<BR/><BR/>This week I keep thinking about the title of Shaeffer's book, "How shall we then <I>live?</I>" <BR/><BR/>and the pssage from 1Chronicles 12:<BR/><BR/><I>"men of Issachar, who understood the times and knew what Israel should do" </I><BR/><BR/>it is not sufficient for us to know what the people of God should <I>NOT</I> think, believe, or where they should NOT attend ... the key question is, what should we <I>DO?</I>Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-73614251062326814212008-09-22T11:34:00.000-07:002008-09-22T11:34:00.000-07:00I'm awestruck by the summary and diagnosis.I think...I'm awestruck by the summary and diagnosis.<BR/><BR/>I think your string of conclusions are inescapable, and require something, <BR/><BR/>something...Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05791587899672940996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-42992033726373519782008-09-22T10:18:00.000-07:002008-09-22T10:18:00.000-07:00One correction to Joseph's summary comments: I am ...One correction to Joseph's summary comments: I am NOT critical of the emerging church, their "Pope" maybe, but not the expression! In fact, the leadership of our motley crew has agreed to use Rob Bell's videos for our Growth Groups this fall! Fred showed a Utube clip one Sunday as a promotional. I don't have the address handy. However, Rob Bell was being interviewed by a British Talk Show host. He characterized him (Rob) as the leader of an Emerging Church (Mars Hill, www. marshillchurch.org/). Rob's response was amazing! He said that he doesn't like titles or labels; therefore, he would NOT call them an Emergent Church. Furthermore, he is interested in breaking bread and sharing fellowship with anyone who shares a similar love for Jesus. A position which I believe all of us share. Although, an OC Priest or a RC Priest could NOT break bread with us! Interesting! :-}Randy R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12650176883278364001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-31310978621522102322008-09-22T10:00:00.000-07:002008-09-22T10:00:00.000-07:00Bruce, I am not specifically responding to just yo...Bruce, I am not specifically responding to just you but the overall conversations we have had in here for several months. So I am addressing this to the whole "thinklings" community ...<BR/><BR/>What I am getting from what I have read in our conversations over these last few months is that:<BR/><I><BR/>-Most of us admire the confessional or liturgical churches, but we don't actually want to go so far as joining one of them.<BR/><BR/>-Most of us are suspicious or critical of the so-called Emerging church (excepting me and John M.)<BR/><BR/>-A few of us may admire Reformed theology but we are critical of their tendency to ignore the first 1500 years of Ch history.<BR/><BR/>-I think it would be safe to say, that most of us are concerned about the superficiality of the mega-church consumer syndrome. <BR/><BR/>-No one in here that I know of likes the Quakers accept for me.<BR/><BR/>-I think most of us would agree from past conversations that Covenant churches are declining and probably will not exist in a recognizable form in the next generation. <BR/><BR/>-No one in here is particularly thrilled with the low church, 'Organic church' approach with the possible exceptions of me and John and neither of us have been particularly effective at it.</I> <BR/><BR/><B>so.... my question is, where does that leave us? What is the way forward? It seems that we have negated all possible avenues other than "business as usual" and <BR/>"long obedience toward incremental extinction."</B>Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-21693975622228235862008-09-22T09:36:00.000-07:002008-09-22T09:36:00.000-07:00"good points Bruce. So, are you saying that for us..."good points Bruce. So, are you saying that for us 'conservative' evangelicals, the only two valid options are to go liturgical or go 'Reformed'?"<BR/><BR/>My answer: No.<BR/>But whatever the option we pick, it has to include digging deep.<BR/>Sour grapes? Maybe.<BR/>Retire in spirit? I think that would be about as unfaithful as not signing up for Jesus in our 20s, because we have too much living to do before we put our hands to the plow. Derek said once that God commands all men to repent, not just young people--in response to old people complaining that they are too old to change. So, nope, no matter what we do, we're not off the hook.Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05791587899672940996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-42174890834758233532008-09-22T08:56:00.000-07:002008-09-22T08:56:00.000-07:00good points Bruce. So, are you saying that for us ...good points Bruce. So, are you saying that for us 'conservative' evangelicals, the only two valid options are to go liturgical or go 'Reformed'?<BR/><BR/>By-the-way, in the blog posting that i mentioned by Scot McKnight, he includes a deepening appreciation of the the historic church tradition as one of the features of the emerging church. <BR/><BR/>I would have to say that in 1975-76, our 'Covenant' group was the 'emerging church' of the 1970s ... is it possible some of the suspicion that I sense in our blog community toward the ECM is a sort of sour-grapes jealousy? Aside from some of the political leftward leanings, I find that a lot of what the ECM is trying to say is reminiscent of our guys. <BR/><BR/>So what do we do? Do we just go join the liturgical and/or Reformed church of our choice and try to start getting ready for retirement?Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-21539822175975093172008-09-22T08:52:00.000-07:002008-09-22T08:52:00.000-07:00Responding to Joseph's post: I actually brought th...Responding to Joseph's post: I actually brought this subject up early in our blogging on Covenant Thinklings. I don't believe that the "Evangelical Movement" is imploding. The author of the article points out that there are not a lot of students leaving for the RC or OC, but that those who are leaving are some of the brightest students. He points out, as I too believe, that this fits into the emerging church paradigm: "Paradoxically, I see this as part of the emerging movement. One of the themes of the emerging movement is made up of several threads: weariness with evangelical bickering, a yearning for liturgical form, and an awareness of the value of the ancient fathers of the Church." The last two points are what I believe have been most influential. I am personally aware of three situations: One former young man (now in his early 40's!), who was the best academic student we graduated in the ten year history of our high school, later went to law school at CBN, converted first to RC and then to OC, which is where he has continued to practice his faith. In fact, the leader of the congregation, Fr. Gregory Matthews-Green, is the husband of Frederica Matthews-Green, who is quoted in McL's book. The second is the son of a close friend from the Academy, who was instrumental in my coming to the Lord, and with whom I had wonderful fellowship this weekend. Also, Gary and his wife were part of our stream of churches most of their journey, with the congregation in San Jose, CA, now lead by John Issacs. His son and new bride are part of the OC, and I just learned this weekend that he is in training for a possible leadership role in the church. Finally, one of our own outstanding young men, who attended the leadership training school with Mike Bickle in Kansas City, who later married a RC and has made that expression of faith his home church in Scranton, Pennsylvania. <BR/> Footnote: Fascinating website with lots on interesting insights regarding the OC and Frederica's journey: www.frederica.com!Randy R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12650176883278364001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-33995808913961441842008-09-22T07:54:00.000-07:002008-09-22T07:54:00.000-07:00Steve H is the go to guy on this Lit-Church subjec...Steve H is the go to guy on this Lit-Church subject. I say that the way to resist PoMo relativity is to affirm the transcendent and universal stuff (gospel, kerygma) and to strongly affirm the historical community.<BR/><BR/>I guess the anti-embodiment spirit of Modernity infected the Reformation (at first a revival movement inside the Catholic Church) and was full blown in American revivalism who looked at the bible as descended from the skies. Now on the otherside of Modernity, is some ways anyway, we want to reaffirm the embodied historical community of the church.<BR/><BR/>As Garrison Keilor once said about a lady at the Lake Wobegon Lutheran Church who sang "I Believe," the tune from Carousel, that he didn't think that raindrops and flowers were the reason the church split. My point is that in the present moment, if the evangelical church doesn't have anything better than our historical predecessors, then we have no legitimacy in our distance from them. (The Reformed folks at Sovereign Grace and Ligonier Ministries say Yes, We do have something better. But not the emerging guys, in my estimation.)<BR/><BR/>The downside of real communities ought to be kept in mind always. Original sin has not been repealed. And uncle wilbur keeps blowing his nose at the dinner table--not sinful, just gross stuff among the saints that real community makes us live with.Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05791587899672940996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-85298173156509168282008-09-22T06:33:00.000-07:002008-09-22T06:33:00.000-07:00hi guys, sorry, I have nothing to contribute to th...hi guys, sorry, I have nothing to contribute to the sports topic. My bad...<BR/><BR/>there is an interesting discussion this morning on Jesuscreed.org about young evangelical college students who are converting in large numbers to liturgical churches - RCC or EO. What do you think about this? Has evangelicalism run its course and beginning to implode or fragment even further? The whole article is not long and is well worth reading. I'm pasting in the first paragraph below:<BR/><BR/>http://www.jesuscreed.org/<BR/><BR/><B>More on the Liturgical Turn</B><BR/><BR/>"What is going on? There is a rise, a burgeoning rise, of young college students converting from low church evangelicalism, with its anemic, unhistorical ecclesiology, to the great liturgical traditions: Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. Three students this semester have already told me they are considering converting. I have spoken with professors or chaplains at a few colleges and they are seeing the same thing. The numbers are not large, but the students themselves are often some of our brightest and best. So, what to say?"<BR/>(read more…)Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-92061366973560706762008-09-22T05:01:00.000-07:002008-09-22T05:01:00.000-07:00Wait a minute, what do you mean "not much of a spo...Wait a minute, what do you mean "not much of a sports fan"? First of all, I cannot believe how the mighty have fallen! For team that had the best record in the NFL last year, in a record setting season, to lose to the team who had the worst record in the NFL (whose record would have even been more horrible if the Ravens had not let them win a game), what an incredible, humbling, loss!!!! One could argue that if Tom Brady were playing the outcome would have been different, and I might agree, if it were a close game. But the Patriots received a spanking! Meanwhile, the Ravens are looking GOOD! I have been saying for years that if they could only get a decent quarterback, not great, just consistently good, that they would have a contender. I believe that these last two games have proven that, along with their new coach. The two are not unrelated. Following our Super Bowl win, Jan. 2001. The team dismissed their quarterback, something that has never happened before in the NFL, and I hope never happens again! I believe that Brian Billeck brought a curse on our team. Hie proud, arrogant attitude was the Raven's downfall. Now it is a NEW season, literally!Randy R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12650176883278364001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-21161228889912483592008-09-22T04:07:00.000-07:002008-09-22T04:07:00.000-07:00Brian, whether or not there are sports fans may no...Brian, whether or not there are sports fans may not be all the issue. There hasn't been a lot to be excited about for a while for fans of the Bengals and Reds. KY football has been providing more to cheer about and you don't really want to get KY basketball fans started, do you?steve Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09636663818169138997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-89451037936476346532008-09-21T15:08:00.000-07:002008-09-21T15:08:00.000-07:00Joseph, sorry to hear of your injuries. Glad it w...Joseph, sorry to hear of your injuries. Glad it was nothing too serious, and that you are bearing it with your usual good humor!Brian Emmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-20142503830130273092008-09-21T15:01:00.000-07:002008-09-21T15:01:00.000-07:00We're mourning the Patriots first regular season l...We're mourning the Patriots first regular season loss in over a year up here in New England, but since nobody on this blog seems much of a sports fan, we'll pass by this sad event and hurry along to...<BR/><BR/>..."How can we live with our deepest differences?" This from the Manifesto we're discussing. In one sense, I wonder if enjoying the liberties of a democracy makes this harder? When we were a small, persecuted sect under the Roman boot, nobody really cared about our opinion on anything and we lacked any kind of "political" power or influence.<BR/><BR/>But now: we get to vote, we have a say in the public square... we can be coopted by politicans, we face the temptation of seeking to impose our view of "the good" on folks who may not share it... but then, someone's vision of "the good" ultimately gets implemented.<BR/><BR/>So here's a question: in the realm of current US politics, what do we feel are non-negotiables for us as followers of Jesus(if anything?), and perhaps more importantly, how do we "stand" for those without misrepresenting our King and the way his Kingdom operates?Brian Emmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119537229186664059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-2959710112057712692008-09-21T09:15:00.000-07:002008-09-21T09:15:00.000-07:00awesome Randy!! Your experience is a beautiful exa...awesome Randy!! Your experience is a beautiful example of faith at work sowing seeds in the world and advancing the kingdom.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-47678885686019204802008-09-21T09:12:00.000-07:002008-09-21T09:12:00.000-07:00Ok. I was already tired as you could tell from my ...Ok. I was already tired as you could tell from my atrocious misspelling in the post above. Then around 9:00 pm last night, through tragic series of comic errors I broke my toe in two places and needed 6 stitches to close a wound between two of the toes. Debbie left a box with a new light fixture sitting beside our kitchen cabinets. I got a class of water, took my evening meds, and was walking around the corner, headed for the bedroom, and whacked the box with my right foot between the 4th and 5th toes, tripped over the box, spilled the water out of the glass, just managed to catch myself and get my feet back under me, THEN slipped again on the water with my feet flying out from under me, feel flat on my ass with my head at an angle against the wall…and let out a blood curdling scream and a stream of unrepeatable syllables (not tongues). Amazingly, I never dropped the glass!<BR/><BR/>When I got up and hobbled to a chair, my right foot was bleeding and leaving footprints. My son John took me to the ER where I read straight through 75 page of Florencia Mallon’s postmodern history of Peasant and Nation in Latin America while waiting for them to clean and stitch my wound (Don’t laugh, I wrote the last 9 pages of my masters thesis in the waiting room while Deb was having surgery). We got back to the house about 4:30 am this morning. <BR/><BR/>We must be doing something right…around here...the devil seems pissed. I’ve got my foot up and bandaged. I’ll put a photo of later today on www.friendsforthejourney.<BR/><BR/>Great discussion guys! Bama Steve, the series that I heard Charles give was presented at PDI, C.J. Maheny’s annual leadership conference. I would love a copy if you can score one, as well as the Daniel Model. I'll be happy to send a check.<BR/><BR/>Brian: all metaphors tend to oversimplify and break down at some point. I am sure there are many more valid responses to postmodern pluralism than the one I shared. I think Charles’ teaching on this points out two dangerous or wrong types of response … similar to Mumford’s “going transitive.” However, I am sure we can nuance a number of constructive ways to redemptively live within a pluralistic environment. My main goal is to move us past discussing the evils of pluralism (which is pretty much irrelevant at this point) to discussing <I>“how shall we then live?”</I> within global pluralism.Joseph Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444064378832759436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-86617077329790556042008-09-21T08:49:00.000-07:002008-09-21T08:49:00.000-07:00Hey, John, thanks for asking. The short answers ar...Hey, John, thanks for asking. The short answers are the chapel service went extremely well, and I not was able to see McCain. However, I have never seen more Secret Service agents before at a football game in my life!!!!! <BR/><BR/>The longer answer is that this has been a very rich and fulfilling weekend. The service was attended by about 50 men and women, and I don't recall when I have ever felt more liberty in my sharing. I was able to connect, encourage, and challenge my classmates gathered that morning . . . some of whom are retired Navy captains and admirals! Thank you, Father!<BR/><BR/>On a more personal note: the Academy creates an unusual bonding. When you have been through four years of stuff with the same group of guys, it really does make a "band of brothers." Twenty-seven of us graduated from the same company, "Thirsty Third." Seventeen were at the reunion, more than any other of the 36 companies. Of those men, including myself, several came to faith while at the academy or have come since we graduated 35 years ago. In fact, at the larger reunion, one guy cornered me, asked me if I remembered him from our German class, had apparently learned of my faith, and proceeded to share with me his life story and how he had come to genuine faith in this past year!!!! Within my own company, when I came to faith, several of my "friends" became very antagonistic. I prayed for them, and one in particular had a dramatic conversion some years later. He was that the reunion, and his wife gave me a big, warm, hug, saying, with tears in her eyes, "Thank you for praying for Brian!" Those of us who share the same faith, agreed to band together and pray for our company classmates who don't yet know Him! Rich! Absolutlely love it!!!! More LORD, more!Randy R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12650176883278364001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-86988386158651381792008-09-21T07:57:00.000-07:002008-09-21T07:57:00.000-07:00Hey Randy, give us an update on your reunion. How...Hey Randy, give us an update on your reunion. How did it go? The chapel service? Did you get to talk to McCain?John M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17246946295254009203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073492877901726247.post-22112628367254936162008-09-21T07:48:00.000-07:002008-09-21T07:48:00.000-07:00Interesting! I have enjoyed reading the "Saturday ...Interesting! I have enjoyed reading the "Saturday Evening Post"! I will add some comments soon, after I have had my second cup of coffee! Love you guys! RRRandy R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12650176883278364001noreply@blogger.com